Scripted Interview With
ERIC TRAN’S
RELIGION,
POLITICS, SEX & AFFAIRS WITH MEN IN
SUITS
“Eric Tran’s Affairs with Men In Suits is a sustained and meticulously
researched meditation on love and lust and shame and grace. He dramatizes sexual encounters with
disgraced public figures Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, and Mark Foley so completely
that he simultaneously humanizes and convicts with the same paintbrush. These poems are funny and scandalous, yet
extraordinarily delicate, as shown in the closing image of the opening
poem: the paper/catches/ quick –
unexpected brightness/ from such small tinder.
The truths that Tran shows me about myself are not convenient, but they
are essential, and they fill me with forgiveness.”
Michael White, author of Vermeer in Hell and Re-entry
YOUR
BIRTHDATE?
I’m turning 26 this July. I’m a Leo and a recent birth chart reading says my
rising sign is Sagittarius, so apparently everything about my stars is warring with
everything else.
WHERE WERE
YOU BORN?
I was born and raised in the land of Google and Facebook and now live in
North Carolina.
AT WHAT AGE
DID YOU REALIZE YOU WERE GAY?
I actually thought everyone in the world was gay until I was about 8 or 9—it
just seemed natural to me that all boys would have crushes on other boys. (I’m
still having trouble accepting this.)
CAN YOU
DESCRIBE YOUR EXPERIENCE OF COMING OUT AS A GAY MAN?
I was first vocally out in high school, the early 2000s. It wasn’t until
years after I graduated that I realized that I was, for a time, the only out
student and that the majority of the high school hated me for it. I thankfully
had very supportive friends—we listened to a lot of Bjork and read Margaret
Atwood and pretended like we lived elsewhere—so it didn’t seem like any of it
mattered. And it certainly doesn’t matter now. I would say I was lucky, but
isn’t it weird and sad to think of ‘lucky’ as being loved and accepted?
On another note, the experience of coming out as gay, as bi, as trans, as
whatever, is not a singular incident. Coming out is constant—in so many spaces
the default is straight, is cis. Every new group of people or new situation is
a decision of if or how to signal to people who you are.
WHAT DOES IT
MEAN TO BE GAY? SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY IT
SIMPLY MEANS MEN OR WOMEN DESIRING TO HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH PEOPLE OF THE
SAME SEX. OTHERS WOULD SAY IT IS MEN AND
WOMEN DESIRING TO HAVE A ROMANTIC LASTING RELATINSHIP WITH PEOPLE OF THE SAME
SEX. WHAT DO YOU SAY?
Oh man, I usually defer to whatever an individual says. I’m not brave
(arrogant?) enough to even venture a guess about how sexual and romantic
attraction works for others. Hell, I don’t even know what they mean for me.
I’ll go as far as to say identity and behavior are different things. Someone
who may not identify as gay may have sex with or be attracted to people of the
same gender. Similarly, there’s a gay identity and culture that is almost
entirely separate from the acts of sex and romance. Gay culture involves
history that includes the AIDS crisis, the fight for marriage equality and
shared experiences about coming out, self-discovery, (and) family, among other
things.
And if someone has a story that’s different—or the same—as what I’ve
proposed, I’d be out of my mind to suggest that they’re wrong. If anything, I’d
ask them to tell me more.
WERE YOU
REARED WITH A FAITH OR RELIGION?
My family was half-heartedly Buddhist. We had a family shrine in the house,
but didn’t go to temple. I stopped identifying as Buddhist because I didn’t
think it fair to claim something that I didn’t actively participate in. I
recently asked my family about our religious beliefs and they just made an
“ehhhh” sound and shrugged.
CAN YOU GO INTO
DETAIL OF WHAT KIND OF POLITICAL EXPERIENCES YOU HAD AS A CHILD?
I’m actually an odd duck for thinking so much about politics. My family is
inert most of the time. They keep up on the news but they’re also immigrants
form the Vietnam War so they probably want to keep their investment in political
manners to a minimum.
More than political activity, my family reads. A lot. We used to take
garbage bags to the library to take home our haul. And when you read that many
people’s stories—fact or fiction—it’s hard not to be empathetic toward other
people’s lives.
REPUBLICAN
POLITIANS AND MINISTERS TEND TO LEAN TOWARD CHRISTIANITY. DO YOU HAVE A FAITH/DOGMA YOU LEAN TOWARD
TODAY?
I’ve lived in the South for a few years now and have heard this question
quite a bit. I usually mumble something along the lines of I do a lot of yoga.
It sounds like a cop out, but I did go through a spiritual crisis a couple
of years ago. I went to different churches with my friends, but the only time I
felt really at peace, like entirely silent, was when I did yoga.
YOUR FIRST
MEMORY OF READING POETRY?
I don’t know about the first poem I read, but the first poem I interacted
with in public was Roethke’s “My Papa’s Waltz.” (http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/172103) I’m not sure my tenth grade English class appreciated it much, but those of
us who wanted to talk went back and forth a lot about if the tone was bitter
about abuse or nostalgic for a rough-and-tumble father.
WHO ARE POET
WRITERS THAT HAVE INFLUENCED YOU THE MOST?
I still feel like I’m a little baby when it comes to poetry, so almost every
poem I read teaches me something. But in terms of who I’m stealing from most
right now, I’d say Mark Halliday, Sabrina Orah Mark, Matthew Siegel (http://www.matthewsiegel.us), Jill
McDonough (http://www.jillmcdonough.com), and Jeffrey
Schomburg. I can’t stop re-reading Lilah Hegnauer’s (http://www.lilahhegnauer.com)
Pantry.
YOUR FIRST
MEMORY OF WRITING POETRY?
In eighth grade, we had to write a mixed-genre book that included essays and
poems. Early drafts of those poems involved me being a smart-ass with
punctuation and spelling and how I placed things on the page—now that I think
about it, I wish I could channel that little smart-ass more!
WHEN DID YOU
KNOW YOU WERE A WRITER?
Oh man, I’m not even sure I would identify as one now. The identity seems to
come with responsibilities and requirements that I’m not sure I can fulfill.
I’d rather prefer to say that I just write.
WHAT IS YOUR
PROCESS OF WRITING A POEM FROM THE MOMENT IT IS FIRST CONCEIVED IN YOUR BRAIN
UNTIL FINAL FORM ON PAPER?
I don’t naturally think in images or lines. If I’m lucky, now and again I’ll
stumble across something or maybe force it out through sheer effort. I usually
then write a skeleton, a ‘practice poem’, around that and try to eventually
replace bad lines with better ones. Or sometimes I rescue a good image or line
from a sinking poem and place it elsewhere. Or sometimes everything drowns.
I’ve finished maybe twenty poems in my life, and for every one of those poems
there are dozens that are buried in my drafts folder.
HOW HAS
WRITING NON-FICTION HELPED YOU BECOME A BETTER POET?
If anything, I think poetry has made me better at writing non-fiction. I’m
an essayist in heart and mind and poetry has been essential in helping me
consider how a piece of work operates word-by-word.
WHAT MADE YOU
CHOOSE AN MFA IN NON-FICTION VERSUS POETRY?
Honestly, I just think and organize in terms of essays and memoir. I love
that poetry challenges the conventions of how we make associations and
establish rules and relationships—essentially the opposite of what I want to do
in essays—but I exist most naturally and comfortably in arguments and
narratives.
WHAT
NON-FICTION WRITERS HAVE INFLUENCED AS A POET THE MOST?
John Jeremiah Sullivan has the most beautiful and surprising closing lines
I’ve ever read in nonfiction. I also source a lot from fiction: Rebecca Lee,
Dave Eggers, Marquez—gorgeous, gorgeous writing.
YOUR WRITING
CAREER AND YOUR MEDICAL CAREER SEEM TO CONNECT – YOU WRITE TO BENEFIT GAY
RIGHTS AND YOU WANT TO PURSUE A MEDICAL CAREER TO BENEFIT LGBT
INDIVIDUALS. WHAT GOALS DO YOU HOPE TO
ACCOMPLISH FOR THE LGBT COMMUNITY IN THE MEDICAL FIELD?
Oh man, I just finished my first year of med school and the goal right now
seems to be just to pass.
I think overall the dream is to give LGBT people access to comprehensive,
competent, and sensitive care. Research shows that a lot of the health
disparities that LGBT people face—increased rates of cancers, obesity,
addiction, mental health problems—probably stem from not seeking or receiving
healthcare because of discrimination or fear of discrimination.
On a smaller level, I’d love to work in a community clinic that recognized
the need for public health outreaches to reduce these health disparities.
I LOVE THE
TITLE AFFAIRS WITH MEN IN SUITS. HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH IT?
It’s funny: I’ve co-opted every space in my apartment for shoes and blazers
and sweaters, but Affairs With Men In Suits was the first time
clothing—particularly masculine, political clothing—figured prominently in my
writing. Sex was another theme of the collection, so the two just fell into
place.
WHICH POEM
FROM AFFAIRS WITH MEN IN SUITS DID
YOU WRITE FIRST?
I was simultaneously new to and frustrated with poetry at that
point—everything I wrote was awful and hollow. My first Larry Craig poems were
a way for me to say, “Fuck you!” to poetry. Like, “I’m going to write what I
want,” thinking that somehow poetry was telling me what was an acceptable
topic.
Regardless of the quality of the product, it finally felt good to write
poetry, so I continued.
WHICH POEM
FROM AFFAIRS WITH MEN IN SUITS DID
YOU WRITE LAST?
The last poem I wrote was “My Mother Asks How I Was Gay Before Sleeping with
a Man.” Before that point, I had stuck pretty closely to the theme or idea I
had in mind—there’s that downfall of thinking too much about a project again! I
wanted all my poems to be directly about Craig or Haggard or Foley, but the
collection was too rigid, too one-note.
As an experiment, I thought about what would happen if I wrote tangentially
or even opposite to the collection. With Affairs With Men In Suits, I wanted
sexy, I wanted dark and so I thought, “What’s something I wouldn’t immediately
want to associate with these things? Oh, my mom.”
DID YOU EVER
ACTUALLY HAVE THESE FANTASIES WITH TED HAGGARD, LARRY CRAIG, AND/OR MARK FOLEY
OR ARE THEY STRICTLY POETIC FORMS OF EXPRESSION?
It’s hard to say anymore. I’m the kind of guy who falls in love with most
people he meets and nearly everyone he works closely with. The number of
Valentines I write every year is ludicrous.
WHERE WERE
YOU WHEN YOU FIRST HEARD OF THE SCANDALS SURROUNDING TED HAGGARD, LARRY CRAIG,
AND MARK FOLEY?
I was a senior in college when I started to read about these scandals. I had
been working with this LGBT student panel for four years—we went around to
dorms and administrative offices to talk about our experiences as LGBT people
in hopes of inspiring compassion and empathy. I suppose that primed me for
being softer towards these men than the most of the media was being.
WHICH OF
THESE POEMS IS THE MOST COMPELLING AND EMOTIONAL TO YOU AND WHY?
You would think the poems based on my own life, where I am the narrator of
the poem. But I find that I’m a typical non-fiction writer—I’ll tell you
anything you want about my life, probably stuff you don’t want to know at all.
The tough poems were the fictional poems I wrote about Ted Haggard. I
imagined the boy of those poems having a relationship with Haggard that
imploded because of his insecurities, which I based on my own. It’s easy to
tell you the ‘shameful’ facts of my life; it’s harder for me to tell you why I
feel ashamed about them.
I FELT THAT
THE BOOK COULD BE TAKEN TWO WAYS:
CONDEMNING GAYS WHO INSISTS ON HIDING IN THE CLOSET OR CONDEMNING THE
RELIGION AND POLITICAL ORGANIZATIONS THAT FORCE GAYS IN THE CLOSET? WHAT DO YOU WANT READERS TO TAKE FROM THIS
BOOK?
When the scandals first broke—and continued to break—I found myself trying
to convince my friends, all LGBT activists as well, of how sad these men (Ted
Haggard, Larry Craig, and Mark Foley) were, of how much sympathy I had for
them. Guys, that could be us.
No one really believed me or paid much attention, so I tried to write these
poems as a way to prove—at least show—that sympathy, that empathy. I of course
don’t expect that I will succeed in convincing every reader, but I do hope that
people start
to see that these men—and all of us—have many complicated motivations for
what we do. This doesn’t absolve us of the consequences of our actions, but
it’s a hard life out there.
WERE THESE
POEMS WRITTEN AS INDIVIDUAL POEMS OR AS PART OF A COLLECITON?
A lot of my teachers told me to write without a project or idea in mind,
like just see where the writing takes you before you build a track for
yourself. I’d still agree with that because whenever I think I know where I’m
going I have to make a turn somewhere else or flip around entirely or just stop
the car and ask for directions. But I did have a collection in mind and I
always have a series or project floating in my head. Whether or not that ends
up being the final product, I find the structure of a project helps me revisit
the writing when I’d rather give up.
HOW LONG DID
IT TAKE YOU TO WRITE ALL THE POEMS IN THE BOOK?
I wrote and rewrote and dreamed about lines and concepts and narratives on
and off for about four years. Come to think about it, it’s been the longest
relationship of my life.
WHAT WAS YOUR
EXPERIENCE IN GETTING THIS COLLECTION PUBLISHED?
As with all my writing, I got rejected a lot. A lot. There’s never (a) guarantee
of finishing a piece of writing and on top of that there’s no guarantee that it
will be published anywhere or that anyone will read it.
When I found Backbone Press (www.backbonepress.org), I had actually given up on submitting the
book for a while. It was discouraging to feel like it didn’t belong anywhere
and I just needed a break. But I just fell in love with Backbone’s mission and
interests: the sociopolitical aspects of life figure prominently in our work,
so I took a chance. I’m glad they took one on me, too.
*Eric Tran is currently a medical student at The University of North
Carolina –Chapel Hill and holds an MFA in Non-Fiction from UNC Wilmington. His work can be found in the Crab Orchard Review, Hobart, Indiana Review, Knockout Poetry,
Redivider, Specter Literary Magazine, and elsewhere. He can be found via the
web at www.veryerictrain.com
Photo Description and Copyright Information
Photo 1
Eric Tran’s web logo photo.
Photo 2
Jacket cover of Affairs With Men In Suits.
Photo 4
Bjork performing in Vancouver in May 23, 2007
Attributed to Jhayne.
CCA2.0 Generic
Photo 5
Margaret attending the reading at Eden Mills Writers’ Festival in Ontario,
Canada.
Attributed to Vanwaffle
CCASA 3.0 Unported
Photo 6
Rainbow flag, LGBT symbol.
Attributed to Ludovic Bertron
CCBY 2.0
Photo 7
Eric Tran on May 25, 2014
Copyright granted by Eric Train.
Photo 9
Eric Tran’s library
Copyright granted by Eric Tran
Photo 10
Eric Tran doing Yoga on July 11, 2013.
Copyright granted by Eric Tran.
Photo 11
Theodore Roethke in 1959.
Attributed to Imogen Cunningham
Fair Use Under the United States Copyright Law.
Photo 12
Matthew Seigel web logo photo.
Photo 13
Jacket cover of the Pantry by Lilah Hegnauer.
Photo 14
Excerpt of Eric Tran’s published piece Release The Panda Bear
July 16, 2013.
Photo 15
Eric Tran on February 16, 2010
Photo 16
John Jeremiah Sullivan at the National Book Critics Award.
Attributed to David Shankbone
Public Domain.
Photo 17
Dave Eggers at the 2007 Brooklyn Book Festival
Attributed to David Shankbone
CCASA3.0 Unported.
Photo 18
Eric Tran receiving his medical coal for medical school
October 9, 2013.
Copyright granted by Eric Tran.
Photo 19
Eric Tran and friend Margot at the Weird Bay Area Feminist and Queers
Becoming Doctors
September 21, 2013
Copyright granted by Eric Tran.
Photo 21
Eric Tran on July 25, 2010
Copyright granted by Eric Tran.
Photo 23
Eric Tran in May of 2014.
Photo 24
Ted Haggard on the cover of The Advocat
Photo 25
Larry Craig's official portrait
Public Domain
Public Domain
Photo 26
Mark Foley's 109th Congress Photo
Public Domain
Public Domain
Photo 27
Jade Benoit, Eric Tran, and Mathew Lewis on April 14, 2013
Copyright granted by Eric Tran.
Photo 28
Eric Tran
Copyright granted by Eric Tran.
Photo 29
Copies of Affairs With Men In Suits and the Index
Copyright granted by Eric Tran.
Photo 30
Eric Tran on May 26, 2014
Copyright granted by Eric Tran.
Photo 31
Web logo of Backbone Press.
Photo 32
Eric Tran on April 13, 2014
Copyright granted by Eric Tran.
Copies of Affairs With Men In Suits and the Index
Copyright granted by Eric Tran.
